Ep. 131 | Worship Leadership Wisdom | ft. Kevin Fletcher, Lucas Lott & Austin Shekell

In today's episode, Astin Kahnk is joined by Kevin Fletcher, Lucas Lott and Austin Shekell to wrap up the conversation on our sermon series titled "Louder Than Words." Listen in as they discuss how to prepare for a life of leadership as well as what worship truly is. Let's dive in!

If you have any questions about this podcast, or about The Orchard Community Church, we would love to hear from you! Visit our website at theorchardcc.org and fill out our contact form, or send us a message on Facebook (@IAmTheOrchard) or Instagram (@theorchard.cc). Until next time!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

There's a massive difference between someone who is leading a song and someone who is leading a worship service. There's a there's a massive difference there. Yeah. And I think what changed for me is just to be honest with you, the best place you prepare is outside of Sunday morning. I think you know that. Yeah. Right. In your personal, intimate walk with Jesus. It's like Joseph, right? Like Joseph in his season of waiting. We talked about this when we did that series on Joseph's life. God was equipping him the entire time. Every little season, God was preparing him the entire time. Each time that he went through a different season and stepped into something else, God was equipping him. And so by the time it was time for him to step into leadership, he was equipped and he was ready.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Talk about how do you prepare on Sunday morning? I always like to picture myself, you talk about the throne room, the great throne. That's where I like to put myself in worship. And you'll get in there and get so wrapped up in it. You know, when you start focusing on what God has done for you, it's amazing. And so then I'll just lose it.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Welcome to Let's Talk About That, the podcast where we deep dive into Sunday's message and explore your questions. I'm your host, Aston Kank, and I'm excited to share this journey with you. Whether you're a longtime member of The Orchard or a first-time visitor, Let's Talk About That is your space to explore, reflect, and connect. Join us as we navigate the intricacies of faith, spirituality, and daily life, seeking to understand how the wisdom shared on Sundays can be applied to our modern challenges. So, grab a cup of coffee, find a comfortable space, and let's dive in together. This is Let's Talk About That, where the conversation about Sunday's message never stops. Well, welcome back to Let's Talk About That. I'm super excited about this conversation because I've already laughed uncontrollably with the fellows that are around the table. But the guys that are with me today are very familiar faces here at the Orchard, and they help just shape the worship experience at each of our locations on Sunday morning. So I'm gonna let them go around, introduce themselves, and share what location they attend.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

Hey, I'm a Kevin Fletcher worship leader over at Brantford. My name is Austin Shekel. I'm the worship leader and work with students as well at our Lake City location. And I am Lucas. If you're new to the orchard, I lead worship at our Live Oak location. I also also have the privilege to lead our student ministry there as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Well, these guys are very special to the orchard. And like I said earlier, we just really appreciate all that you guys do day in and day out with your teams just to help lead our church into a time of worship on Sunday mornings. I was reading a quote earlier this week that said, corporate worship is designed to take your eyes off of you and the world, filling them instead with the beauty and glory of God. So again, just thank you for just creating a space every Sunday morning and Wednesdays for you guys where we can just do that. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

I think it's a great way to start because isn't that the goal? Yeah. I think that's the goal of this podcast. That's the goal of why we do student ministry, the goal of why we lead worship is that not just us, but that those we lead in worship would fix their eyes and affections on Jesus. That's that's the reason we do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah, that's good stuff.

SPEAKER_05 2:58

That's 100%.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Well, yeah, let's just kick off this conversation with some lighthearted get to know Austin, Kevin, and Lucas questions. Podcast listeners, get ready. What is one random slash fun fact about yourself that someone might not know?

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna start with Kevin on this one. Let's go, Kevin. Oh, wow. Well, there's pressure. Yeah, there's so much to pick. All fingers pointed to Kevin just then, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Why was it in this too? Can we just start the right back? Crazy Uncle Kevin. Yeah, I had a good time with that, by the way. I still have youth coming up to me and go, crazy Uncle Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

We're not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

That was the goal.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I have FOMO because I wasn't at bold and I saw the pictures and videos, and I was like, I wasn't there. But I'll be there next year.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

When we started to plan that service experience, the games, everything like that, I knew right away. I was like, how can I get Kevin involved? I know exactly. Kevin, can you come to this and can you be yourself? And that was and it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Okay, uh, secrets about me, nobody knows. No, wait, we don't want to know. We don't want that. Um I have an older ego named Panama Red that fixes things on Facebook and stuff. So if you ever follow Panama Panama Red rides again, is my face Yeah, I I've rebuilt an old air stream. I'm working on a 53 buy right now, so that is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

My JAWS the four, that's really cool. Look, I knew you could do cool things, but that's like cool trades.

SPEAKER_05 4:16

Not only does he play music and sing well, but he can build stuff and does anything and so Panama Jack Panama Red.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, so anyway, so Panama Red rides again, and uh you you can link there through my Facebook. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

There you go. I like so kind of on the same note. This isn't the one I was gonna go with, but I'll go with it. I don't have a cool uh Facebook and Instagram account called Panama Red, but I've recently uh I I have a I have a love and just a fascination with like John boats and stuff. And so I've been recently in the last four months or so just restoring and flipping John boats and stuff. Really? I really enjoy doing it in my in my in my time away from the ministry. So yeah, yeah, which there's no time away from the ministry. We're always in it. Oh, but yeah, time at time at home. I enjoy doing it. So very cool. That's awesome. Mine is less cool. You guys are awesome, and uh I'm not. So I I if you don't know, uh I love movies. I'm kind of a movie buff. I have a very I think most men are like this. I have a very selective photographic memory. Like my wife would just probably saying amen right now when she's listening. But yeah, I I just have a very photographic memory. So when I watch a movie, I could watch it one time and I could probably quote it back to you. That's right. So I remember like lots of facts about certain movies and stuff like that. And I love I I go to bed pretty much every night watching a movie on my iPad, you know, just like I don't know. That's what's your go-to favorite? I have a few. I love just uh to shout out to Matt, I love Gladiator from this past Sunday. He quoted Gladiator and Gladiators not seen before. I'm the type of guy if a movie's good, I can watch it over and over again. My wife is could not be more opposite than me. She can't, she really doesn't like watching movies. And if if she is watching the movie, she spends half of it either searching on Google, you know, what what what this other person played in, or she's asking me questions about the plot that I'm currently watching with her.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

I'm like Which we had a conversation about this about subtitles. Which is wild, which is why my husband puts subtitles on because I am like your wife, where I want to ask the questions, and I know it drives my husband crazy.

SPEAKER_05 6:11

It's just why here's the problem for me, okay? Is my wife loves subtitles as well, but how my brain works is I'm not gonna watch the movie, I'm just gonna read this up. It's so stupid. I'm like, why do I do that? I I can't have the subtitles. No, I don't like them. I don't like them. And and here's the thing is especially if it's a movie that's brand new to both of us. I'm like, I don't know anything more about the plot than you do. Why are you asking me right now? I'm watching the same. I'm watching the same movie. So do you do you watch them till you memorize the lines? It just depends. I mean, like, so you know, obviously when your kids are young, they like to re-watch movies over and over again. So, like the cars movies, Moana, like I have memorized those movies. Like, I could probably quote every line to you how they start, you know, the first note. I could like do it by memory, by pitch. I know we're getting wildly off track, but I have to tell the story real fast.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

So we like rabbit trails somewhat. What happens in a worse bleeder podcast?

SPEAKER_05 7:02

I was like eight or nine. I got sick and I stayed home from school for like a week. And the movie that I got fascinated with yes, yes, I've ever seen or heard of the movie called Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I think I probably legitimately watched it five times a day. That's all I had to do. And by the end of it, I could pretty much, and still to this day, if I watch that or clips of it, I can still remember what it's insane. That's pretty I mean I'm like that with major pain. It's like one of my favorite movies of all time. They have core memories of me and my dad watching that and laughing every time we watch it.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

There are movies my wife won't watch with me because I say the line before they say it and start giggling as they start.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

Me and my dad's go-to is Napoleon Dynamite. Yes, yes. So good. I caught you a delicious bass. Okay, I'm gonna reel back. Back on track. It's back on track. Just like a bass. Real is back on that.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

There you go. There you go. So yeah, so our sermon series we're in right now is Songs That We Sing, and it's basically about worship songs, their meaning, and yeah, what they mean to us. So I'm curious, what is your favorite worship song currently?

SPEAKER_05 8:06

That's a tough question.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Can I give you two? Absolutely. All right. So my two top two right now is who else? My get code. It just gets to the heart of it very quickly, right? Who else is worthy of what we're doing? Very vertical song. And then also what really got me listening to this song more. I've heard it before, but actually I was in Live Oak probably a month and a half ago, and Lucas, you ended with you've already won, you did it acoustically. And man, I was like, Man, that's such a good song, right? There's hope that outlasts darkness, hope that's in the blood, right? And I've been listening to that one like crazy. The Shannon Shane version is so good. So those are those are my top two right now. Yeah, I love that song. Man, the the line wrecks me every time. I don't know what you're doing, but I know what you've done. That's right. It wrecks me every I could sing that song. And I think if you've personally I I now I think back to our Scars on the Soul series, but if you have personally seen God walk with you as I have through some of the darkest seasons of life, and then when you walk back in them, that line is important because God, I have no idea what you're doing. Don't know why you're doing it, but I do know what you've done. I do know that that there is hope in the blood. I do know that there is peace that outlasts darkness. Why? Because I've I've witnessed it. Yeah. I've walked through it. Yeah, you know, and so yeah, I love that song. Yeah, I mean, that's that's that's another one. You just said the line, I've witnessed it. That's another good one that we do on Sundays. Yeah, it's it's that's the goal of singing. Like, you know, when I pray and build out these worship, you know, sets and stuff like that for the for the music portion of the service. I I look at like, okay, like I want a good gathering song, like something that opens up, like, you know, it doesn't always have to be upbeat, but that like, hey, God, we're here for you today. We want to invite you to come and move amongst your people, inhabit our praises. But then I like to like get in the middle, you know, portion of that. I like to throw in one of those testimonials. Like, I've witnessed it, man. Yeah, I've witnessed your faithfulness. You've already won. Man, I don't know what you're doing, but I know what you've done because I can look back on my life and I can see the evidence of Christ at work. I didn't see it then, I see it now.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:04

And man, what a testimony that is.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

I threw evidence in there. So there's one more here. That's a super good.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Given's like, well, you just took four off my list.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yeah, I'm gonna have to do all the way back to how he loves or something.

SPEAKER_05 10:16

I think uh Josh Baldwin is a good He's a great loving job. Like crowns down driving song. You know what I mean? Like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got that, yeah, he's got that twang to him. So for me, I'm just gonna kind of go. I uh I've got it several. I probably couldn't tell you like one specific song, but I am gonna share like one. We do it all the time. And actually, I'm gonna probably do it again this Sunday because uh it is just such a good, it lines up really well with the message. But Living Hope, uh, we sang it Sunday, and I didn't even sing it. I was I was playing box drum. Like Jackson sang it and it wrecked me, dude. I couldn't sing the verses, I was like crying the whole entire time. I'm so focused on what what you're actually saying, what you're saying. Like, like every once in a while, you know, a worship artist writes like a generational song that's gonna be sung for years and years and years. I believe strongly that Living Hope is one of those things. You know, you got your O praise the names, what a beautiful name, stuff like that. Like those songs to me are generational, and like yeah, I still pull Here I Am to Worship, I still pull Heart of Worship, I still pull How Great Is Our God, because they're generational songs. Like, man, people love those songs, and it's because they were written so well and they just line up so well with scripture. Yeah, John Piper says, and I I agree with this, he says there's some songs that that you remember where you were, what you were doing the first time you heard them. I was like, Yeah, that's one of those. And the longer you live, the longer you live, the more the more testimonies you build around those songs. 100%. Goodness of God, I sang that at my grandmother's funeral. And like I remember like anytime I sing it now, even if it's just you know that ritualistic, like, hey, it's just in the rotation, it's time to sing it again. It wrecked me because I'm like, that's that's where I was. I was in a headspace singing this song, you know, five years ago. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

What about you, Kev? Right now we uh what a worthy name. Rylan. Y'all know Rylan, she sings with us over in Bramber. It's a great introduce me to it. And normally I'm only everybody goes, What are you listening to, Kevin? What are you listening to? And I'm like, whatever we're gonna play this week. It's I I have a Spotify list with the five songs on it or whatever we're doing, and it's just that's all I listen to. So getting new new stuff is kind of tricky for me. My wife gives me a lot of stuff, and Ryland came with what a worthy name. And I have so many people I know y'all do too have come to you with, oh, you need to do this, you need to do that, and you're filtering through so much music. And so what I did this past month was I asked each of my band members, they give me three songs, your three favorite. What do you got right now that you'd like to see us do? Yeah. And then we're we're working through that list, looking at how they align with the scripture, you know, how doctrinally these are how single are they? Yeah, are they and then you know, are they vertical to God or are they just a horizontal, you know, worship as a group? And that that came out as my top song as I'm listening through most things when I listen for the first time, I'm like, yeah, you know, but that one just man, it and it was one that I was just yeah, and then when I re-listen to it, I'm like, man, this and so we did it last Sunday for the first time, which is powerful. I'm redoing it again this Sunday. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 12:57

I love it. I'm I'm curious about you, Asa. What's yours, what's your top worship song right now?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Oh man, right now. So I go through these seasons where I will just I'll make a playlist and I'll listen to it over and over and over again. And I had a playlist that played when I had each of my kids. And so for a while, I'm big on like, I would say probably 99.9% of the time I'm listening to worship music in my car just because like as a mom, I I I gotta have that daily fill. So I was going through a list earlier, and I wouldn't even say it's like a a popular, I mean, not it is popular, but it's one that I've listened to for a long, long, long time having to go to my Spotify, Spotify list now, worthy of it all.

SPEAKER_05 13:38

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

The CC version man when it talks about yeah, just constant of just like the day and night, night and day, let worship ride. Like just all of those of like, man, like God's awake all the time. So it's like even in the middle of the night, we can wake up and we're working worshiping, worshiping through seasons.

SPEAKER_05 13:56

And yeah, yeah, I love that scripture reference though. Like, let my worship, let my praise be a pleasing aroma. Yes, that's right. That's right. Like, I love that. I I think that I've sang that song before, and when you get to that part, day of night, night of day, let incense arise. I think for like what is that? That's a weird thing to say. Yeah, but no, like that's straight from scripture. Yeah. Man, I don't know what made me think of this, but as we're saying that, yes, have you guys heard of the City of Light song called Yet Not I, but Christ in Me or Christ Through Me? Oh, it's so good. You should listen to it. Great. Yeah, um, I will I will say, you know, as far as like favorite worship songs, my I really, and this has played a huge role in my son getting saved a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

But it's good.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

I constantly am and playing worship music in the car, and they love the upbeat songs. Like that's awesome. I it's it's almost comical. I have a playlist that goes through. It's like songs like you know, washed by elevation rhythm. Uh-huh. Praise. Soon as the intro to praise comes, you know, that drum loop that this, you know, it's it's like very, very upbeat. My kids just start dancing. Yeah, I love every single time it comes on the phone. Also, let's uh let's let's not skip over the fact that praise God for for Liam. Yeah, pretty much Jesus. That's incredible. Yeah, I mean, it was just I wanted to be extremely patient with him just because I I remember back to being a kid and just feeling the pressure of like, oh, my other friends are getting saved and they're getting baptized. I think I want to do that too. And oh, mom and dad want me to get baptized. I I just want to make them proud. And I I 100% did not want him to feel that. Yeah. I wanted him to understand this is a very personal thing. This is all about you, this is all about your relationship with Jesus. And and it's way more about your heart. And we had had those salvation conversations a lot. I mean, I try to be pretty intentional about nighttime and and just like when we pray at night, like, hey, let's talk about the gospel and he'll ask me questions. But it was so unprompted, and it they don't prepare, like I swear they don't, in Sunday school in in small groups, they don't prepare you for those conversations because it's like out of nowhere, he starts asking me gospel questions. And it was after a very stressful baseball game. You know, you're trying to get out of the wreck, the wreck fields there. It's very, you know, very crowded, and there's people everywhere. And he hits me with this, and we get home and we sit in the car and we talk for another 15 minutes and then we go in. And every other time that we've had these gospel conversations, he looks at me and he says, Hey dad, like, do you want me to do this? And I'm like, Of course I want you to do this, but it's got to be all about you. Let's let's come back to this conversation. Yeah. This time he looked at me and he said, Dad, I think I'm ready to give my life to Jesus. Oh, there you go. Yeah, let's go. That's awesome. It was just the proudest dad moment that I think I've ever had in my life.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

So I'm curious, how did you guys know that you were like being called in the ministry specifically worship, like worship ministry?

SPEAKER_05 16:25

Man, for me, it was uh Kevin will love this because this took place in the Bahamas, but okay, let's go. Like, were you on a mission trip to like I was? No, not not not with no. We could have been there at the same time, though. You know what I mean? When was this? This was 2014. Yeah, we've got to be able to do that. Was in the Bahamas, I think within 2014, yeah. Yeah, it was just one of the the you know, quick little mission trips over there. And but I'll I'll start before that. Anyways, so I got I got saved at 15 years old. Uh was in church for a while before that, just didn't take Jesus seriously, was just there honestly, hang on, my basketball buddies and all that stuff. All I cared about was basketball and fishing. That was pretty much it. And that's really what I live for. That's my life, right? The noble pursuit. Shockering. Yeah, me and Lucas literally went fishing, what, three days ago? Yeah, yeah, three days ago. Anyways, not that I don't love fishing anymore, but yeah, it does it doesn't it doesn't control my life. But anyways, I remember sitting in Bethany Church in Melbourne, Florida, and my pastor at the time, he was sharing the scripture about how the Lord was calling his first disciples, and and basically what Jesus says is this is that, hey, what I'm calling you to is no longer to fish for fish, but to fish for people. And what was really cool to me is that really what Jesus is calling them to is hey, to use the knowledge that you've learned and apply it to the gospel ministry. And in that moment, something struck in my heart, and and not that the Lord hadn't been gently pushing me towards that, but to be real with you, I was just running from it. I did not want to do that. I wanted to full on go after professional fishing as my career, and God said no, which I'm so grateful that he did, because now I'll go to the Bahamas. Okay. So I knew God was like, all right, well, you know, calling me into the ministry, didn't know what that looked like. We go to the Bahamas. This is 2014. We're at an orphanage, we're just you know hang out with the kids and all that. My buddy Alex Hurts, who still is involved in worship ministry, he's one of the best guitar players I I know, if not the best. And he's playing an acoustic and he's like, Hey, the or the kid, the kids were like, Hey, can somebody sing for us? And Alex, like, why don't sing? And he looked at me, he goes, You sing for him. And I was like, What? I don't want to, he's like, You really not gonna sing for these kids? Like, if you knew him, it's like it's like, okay, Alex, really? And so we started singing and all that. And then my my student pastor at the time was like, you know what, that really wasn't that bad. You know what I mean? And I was like, I was like, okay, that's incredible. I'm not kidding. Two weeks later, he puts a guitar in my hands. I learned the basic four chords, had a capo, and all that stuff. And four weeks after that, I I led worship in school for a first time, and and uh honestly never looked back. So it was kind of like one of those, hey, go, yeah, and uh which is cool. I'm thankful for it. So but yeah, that's a little comedy to ministry. Um that's really cool. Settled to the worship realm. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, yeah, crazy Uncle Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah. A little different, not not a whole lot. It all also involves the Bahamas, which is which is odd, but yeah, we were the church I was attending at the time was just self-destructing. And Pastor Eddie had been my pastor for a long time over that church. And so I was I I was talking to him fairly regular, going, Man, I am so done with this. I'm so I'm I'm out of here. I'm quitting this, man. That won't. He goes, Don't leave angry, don't leave angry, don't leave angry. Hang in there, God's got something for you. And so, man, I muddled along through that and put and so our our church had gotten to the point where they weren't really doing anything, and I heard the orchard was going on a mission trip to the Bahamas, which I'd been before with our church many times. So I'm like, man, I want to get involved in that. So I thought, hey, can can we go on the trip with you guys? And so we loaded up and go over, and we were having one of the nights in the church at the Bahamas area where everybody's just singing, you know, they love to sing over there, and which which is awesome. But I do what I do. I got up there and did one of my songs, and Eddie came to me later and said, Hey, you know, I want you to consider something. We're planning another location with the orchard. And would would you be interested in leading worship for us? I'm like, Well, you know, I I just do what I do. Yeah, I don't I was kind of like I've been playing the four chords on the guitar till I had worn out G C D and E minor, you know, on a neck, just totally wore it out. But that's all I could do. So I mean that was that was pretty much it. And I just frame on a frame on an acoustic and do what I do. So I said, I got nothing, no, no leadership, no nothing in it. But they go, No, we want what what you got. So I took that as God gone because there was nothing I wasn't seeking after it, I wasn't going and looking for this, I wasn't and and since that he's he's reaffirmed that in other ways because at one point I threw my sucker in the dirt and walked away from it and everything. God got a hold of me, he said, Man, yeah, I didn't tell you to quit that. I didn't I didn't tell you to walk away. Yeah. So yeah. So I'm back. I love it. Do it for you.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

It sounds like you just have to have like that heart behind it. And it's like God, it it's like goes back to the whole thing, you may not feel equipped, but God's gonna equip you if you just put your yes on the table and yeah, and submit and just say, All right, God, you're gonna carry me.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I tell everybody, you know, I'm not a worship leader, I'm just a guy that's gonna be up here worship, and then if y'all want to come along, I love that jump in with me. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

I love that.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Yeah, so I'm a second generation worship leader. My dad leads worship at First Baptist and Live Oak. I accredit a lot of what I've learned. Yeah. I didn't know that. I've accredited credited a lot of what I've learned as a worship leader from him. He has taught me a ton about leading worship and being a pastor and having a pastor's heart. But I I had grown up in ministry and I had seen the good and the bad, and more prevalently the ugly.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

And how it had hurt him at times and how it was hard on our family and struggles through that. And I had developed musical talent. I could sing my youth pastor through me on stage in like eighth and ninth grade and said, Hey, you're gonna sing for the youth band now. Uh more embarrassingly, he found out that I could sing because I played I played a role in a youth choir play. That's it. Oh I was the Archangel Gabriel. There's a there's a very embarrassing picture floating around out there somewhere that I really hope never surfaces. That wasn't with the uh Justin Bieber hairdo, was it? Uh yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yes. Well, that's how they knew you could. Sing right here, brother.

SPEAKER_05 22:01

Did you ever go to a Christian school growing up? Is this where this was? No. No, no, it was that it was that first Baptist Live book. I wore a sparkly white outfit. It was very embarrassing. It was a gunslinger's. I was a gunslinger. Uh the Archangel Gabriel Gunslinger in a play called Fort Unto Y'all. Uh and just yeah. Anyway, he discovered that I could sing, came to me and said, Hey, you're gonna lead worship for the youth, and the rest was history on that. But when I got into 11th grade, I was running hard away from God. I mean, just doing all the wrong things, making all the wrong decisions. And there's very few times in my life where I felt like God has audibly spoke to me. But I'm sitting in a worship service on a Wednesday night, and you know, our youth pastor at the time, he's an intern, he's talking about just like, you know, calls into the ministry. Like, do you feel like God maybe is calling you into the ministry? And I had set in many worship services where that had been spoken and talked about, and kids had come forward and said, Hey, I feel like that. And in those moments, I was like in my head and almost out loud saying, God, I do not want this. I am running away. Like, I don't want this. I've seen the ugly. This is not what I want for my life. And God audibly spoke to me in those moments and said, This is what I have for you. And so I just had to say yes. You know, yeah. I decided at that moment, like, all right, okay, we're going into going into ministry school. We're gonna study ministry. And while you're while you're running, huh? Yeah, while I was running, God said, Hey, I'm pulling you back. You know, this is this is what I have for you. I have equipped you your entire life for this. You you see the you've you've seen your dad, so you you see how ministry works. You already have seen a pastor's heart and how you should pastor people through him. And so guess what? I have it's like Joseph, right? Like Joseph in his season of waiting. We talked about this when we did that series on Joseph's life. God was equipping him the entire time. Every little season in Potiphar's in the pit in Potiphar's house, you know, in prison, God was preparing him the entire time. Each time that he went through a different season and stepped into something else, God was equipping him. And so by the time it was time for him to step into leadership, he was equipped and he was ready. He knew how to handle finances, he knew how to control, you know, not control, but but manage people. And that that was me. Like in 11th grade, God said, I've been equipping you all along. You know how to sing, you know how to do these things, and you've watched your dad for your entire life, but you understand ministry. This is what I have for you. And so I just had to say yes. I I couldn't not say yes. Yeah. So uh that's all I was called into ministry.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

All right, how do you guys prepare? So you've obviously been in your roles, you know, a while. How do you prepare for Sunday so it doesn't seem mundane, especially whenever you're, like you said, Kevin, listening to those songs over and over and over each week. How do you, yeah, I guess like keep the focus on Jesus, but also keep your heart here as well and like ready to experience Jesus through worshiping?

SPEAKER_05 24:39

So Romans 12, one and two, like life versus 100%. Life versus, right? My body is a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to the Lord. This is your true and proper worship. And I know we're gonna uh you're gonna ask this question later, but I'm just gonna kind of hint at it. A little bit now. Yeah. How can I lead others where I myself are not walking? Oh, yeah. So if I'm gonna put songs in on Tuesdays, right? Like I I love to sit in communicators meeting. If you guys don't know, we meet as a staff. And I this is something that I think is amazing, is we have a lead pastor that values everyone's opinion on staff about like he he lays the groundwork, right? Like when we get into those meetings, somebody else has already outlined everything, put in commentary quotes, whatever, but he sits there and he wants to hear from everyone else. What do you think about this? Not just the location pastors, all of our worship winners are in the room, right? Aston's in the room. Like I I love that because I I've grown up in a culture where that was not the case. Yeah. It's my way or the highway. It's you know, it's what I plan, and that's what we're gonna preach. And you need to plan songs based on that. But I like to hear because one, I think God's in the room. Absolutely. As we're sitting there and as we're tossing around different ideas, reading through scripture together, God's in the room, He's moving in our hearts, and I like to see the direction that our pastors want to go. Matt's sitting right next to me. So I want to see, you know, what he the direction that he feels like we need to go, and then we sit and we talk about it afterwards. So anyway, I again, so I plan songs on Sunday or on Tuesdays, but as I'm doing that, again, I think back to how can I lead others where I myself are not walking. So I sit back and I pray about, hey, God, what where do you want this service to go? Where do you want this service to go? And then I look at our scripture and then I put in songs based on that. That's great. And you know, you asked that question, man, how how can I lead others where I myself am not personally? I think the answer is you can, but it just won't be as effective, right? Right. And so so I I say that because two, I mean, as as recently as two or three years ago, to just to be completely transparent with you guys, that's where it was. You know, there's a difference. I mean, you can't fake it. You I mean, and anybody anybody can get up there and sing, right? But but there's a massive difference between between someone who is leading a song and someone who is leading a worship service. There's a there's a massive difference there. Yeah. And I think what changed for me is just to be honest with you, the best place you prepare is outside of Sunday morning. I think you know that. Yeah, right. In your personal, intimate walk with Jesus. But it's funny, Lucas, you brought up Romans 12, 1 and 2. I'm gonna bring up Hebrews 12, 1 and 2, which I think we've kind of already talked about this and fixing your eyes on Jesus. But what it says is this this is therefore, since we have such a great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector of our faith. And it says this who for the joy that was set before him, what is that joy? That's you and I. That's the people who are gonna feel the auditorium, the people who are gonna sit in those seats, the joy that was set before Jesus as he endures the cross is that these people would come to know him as Lord and Savior. And so I I I firmly believe this that our main job as worship leaders, people in the church ministries to first and foremost fix our eyes on Jesus and so that we know what it looks like to help others fix their eyes on Jesus. And so that's the main thing that I do every single Sunday morning is is I try to get there a little bit early. And I try to not just set up, you know, mic stands and all of this stuff and get iPads loaded so we're ready to go, but but honestly get my heart ready in the sense of I need to fix my eyes on Jesus. That's the only hope that I have today. Yeah. Right. And so that's that's it. Yeah. It's good. I mean, uh obviously kind of going back to something that I said, obviously, you know, spiritually, that's how the songs are put in, but that doesn't warrant me not practicing. Yeah. Like 100%. Like if I'm not, if I'm not bettering my craft, that's not, I'm not giving God my best. I'm getting up there and I haven't touched my guitar all week and I'm coming off of I'm I'm living off of yesterday's bread. You know, like yeah, I I'm I'm not giving God my best. And I and I try to disciple my team into that. Like, hey, we haven't been able to practice in a long time, man. Baseball games, just seasons of life. We're doing a Thursday service in Live Oak now, so we have to practice on Tuesdays. And I'm finding, I just texted somebody yesterday, I'm finding that Tuesdays are harder than Thursdays for everybody to get together. We just rarely can get the whole team there, and that's not great because I'm not able to really pastor my team. But at the same time, like I I'm trusting them to practice outside of rehearsal on Sunday morning. And so for me, if I myself, again, if I myself am not practicing and bringing excellence, then what do I expect of them? So here's a question. Do you guys, Kevin Lucas, and I because I know this is true for me, yeah, that there is that temptation though, right? Because I I think that I know you guys well enough. I know you could grab the guitar, go up there and do it. Yeah, I know. But that doesn't mean we should. That's refuel every Tuesday we do refuel. Right. We show up and I think about the songs on the way there. So it's like we're gonna practice this. Then you throw these things out of the air. Yeah, but but just because we can do that doesn't mean that we should, right? I think if if if we're showing up unrehearsed, unprepared, you know, that's that's not that's not bringing out our first guest, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Do you have like specific times of the week that you like So for me it's just a it's at home.

SPEAKER_05 29:27

You know what I mean? Yeah, there's a guitar on the wall, you know. I I'd be lying to you if every week I pick it up every night, and that's just not true. You know, especially young kids to the house and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

But but yeah, that's that's that's kind of where that's I made I made that mistake this week because one of the songs was one I'd done a number of times. A number of times. I'm like, so when I would sit down and run through my music, I just overlooked that one. Yeah, I overlooked that one. I got this one because we got a new song we're doing here and I think that's where you'd put your attention to the show. Yeah, and so when it came time for me to do my song on Sunday morning, it was it was not great. It was not great. I I was struggling along on that one. But when when we planted Live Oak, I memorized everything. I didn't have a we didn't have a confidence monitor, I didn't have a stand in front of me. I I everything was so I played everything so many times that I had I had it down cold. So you know I had about 50 songs stored in my head, so it was and when I found but that was in my 40s, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

A little bit CZ.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Those songs don't stick my more rust on that motor. Yeah, yeah. So they don't stick in my head quite as well. But I do the thing you said about you know listening to them over and over, by the time we got where we introduced a song back in those days, I'd played it a couple hundred times. I mean, just implete. Yeah, yeah. I was sick of the song. I mean, you're literally sick of it until you get up there and start leading the worship and you see the people engaging in worship. Yeah with you're like, oh, man, it's just whole new, whole new.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

So to speak to that, that's a really good point. We should be so rehearsed that we don't even really have to look at the music.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

Like something that something that drives me insane is like when I again, I'm real, we're worship leaders, so we can't help but do this. And it's not a critique, it's just we see the things. Like if you go to another church, you see the things because you know, because you've been up there. Like I can't stand when a worship leader is so locked in on their iPad or or or street music that they don't ever look out or do anything like that. You should be looking in the room, seeing others worshiping. That you don't we don't realize how encouraging that is. So we should be so rehearsed that we don't have to look at that music. We know exactly where the song is going. Yep. Yeah, and I think I think why behind the what is super important on that because I think and that's that's the why, right? The what is hey, we want you to rehearse. Why? So that you come in here, it's not so much a performance as it is you're worshiping Jesus, right? And I and I tell I tell our team this all the time is is I honestly could care less if you hit every note and hit every beat right. Because if you hit every note and every beat right and you don't worship Jesus, we have absolutely failed.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

But if you're so ingrained in worship that we miss a note here and there, yeah, awesome. Yeah, right. Like I'm fine with that. And it's not that we don't want to operate in excellence, that's not what it is at all. But the reason we rehearse, the reason we go through this is so that on Sunday morning, there would be no question that the people who God has entrusted to lead are worshiping Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

And so that's that's it. Again, on the note of practicing, Michael has said this to us a lot. Do not rely solely on talent. You should still prepare. Yeah. That even goes for like, I try to be very intentional with verbal transitions. I don't know if you guys do a lot of that. I try to make sure, like, if I'm gonna share for especially if it's a new song, I know the scripture that the song was written out of. I'm gonna share that scripture and then I'm gonna talk about it. I try to even like sometimes type that out. Because if you don't, you never know where you're I got ADHD brain. You know, I have no idea where my brain's gonna go. And so I could just get up there and I could just mumble and mess up my words. And and so I again going back to Mike, I really appreciate that about Michael because he's the details guy. He says, like, don't rely solely on talent. That's for speaking, that's for the welcome. And when we do nights of worship, I make I say I make, I ask. I ask our pastors who are gonna do the welcomes and do scripture transitions to practice. Show up a little early and practice that, rehearse it because we can't just rely on the fact that we're good speakers or we're good singers or we're good guitar players. Again, we're all human, so I'm just gonna show this real quick. We're all human. A couple weeks ago, in full transparency, I awoke. We we're supposed to be there at 7:30 for practice on Sundays. That is that is very yeah, that that's that's the goal. That is uh very ambitious, but that never happens. But it's anyway, that's not a bash on my team if they're listening to this. I love you guys. You guys rock. Usually it's me late. But I awoke at 8.05 to the sound of my wife's phone. Our bassist Josh had called us and said, Hey, you guys coming to church today? Slept straight through my alarm. I don't know if you guys know this, the Apple alarms, like they have a setting where like they go for so long and then they keep going, but the sound goes off. Oh, really? I slept straight through that thing. I was sleeping like a rock. I get to church at 8 40. And you know what makes it even worse? I had not practiced all week. So I had to sing some pretty difficult songs. One of the songs I had not even picked a key for. I was like, you know what, I'll get to church and I'll figure out a key on the fly. I had to pick a key, and everything went okay. But my team knew, my team knew they were able to practice and rehearse without me, but my team knew. And so I I just felt the massive conviction from that because I was like, man, what am I doing? I'm supposed to be leading these people. I'm supposed to be encouraging excellence, and here I am giving God my leftovers. And I I found that to be true too, is is is the moment that I place my hope in my abilities, that's when things go awry. Yeah. Every time.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

God will humble you every time.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

I'm very fortunate in that I have very little talent. So, you know, it's all I relied on talents very much. Living on a prayer, right? Yeah, yeah. I was I was truly blessed when they brought me on to the orchard. I I got to spend a year. You mentioned Michael, I get to spend a year strumming acoustic behind Michael is our worship leader, yeah, way back in the skating rink, days. Great piano player. Oh, yeah. Awesome worship leader knows music like he he every time he comes over to Brantford, everybody in my bed's like, Michael's here, Michael's here, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:52

We talked about that yesterday. Why is he so intimidated? Why is he so intimidating? Why does he have to be like the hammer? Yeah. No, and that's true. And and and what I appreciate about Michael, I think, is that there's no doubt he is no doubt he's the most talented musician on our staff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

Yet he doesn't that's a massive crave the spotlight and all of that stuff. That's a good transition out of the next question, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yeah. So how do you kind of guard your hearts from against pride and you know seeking the spotlight? I'm I'm sure it can be easy to do when you have the spotlights on you and all attention is on you. Yeah. How do you how do you guard your hearts in that?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

The easiest thing is just get a video camera and video yourself doing one service and then watch your bag and you'll be like, uh listening to myself.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Uh that's me with the announcements. I always turn away when the announcements are on like, oh, that's me.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

We're not looking. I mean, that I can't understand. I mean, it's I'm by far my own worst critic. So like I watch myself and I'm like, I'm terrible. I'm not good. I mean, inadequacy, I was talking to Austin and Trey a few minutes ago. Inadequacy is like one of my greatest fears. And so when I get up there and I hear myself, I'm like, oh, that just doesn't sound good. I should have done this, I should have done that. I I can't stand it. So I'm right there with you. Well, I think once again, it's it's it's fixing your eyes and your affections on Jesus, man. Like we sing a song made for more, right? I know who I am because I know who you are. Doing right in the sun. And what that's not saying is I know how great and awesome I am because I know how great and awesome you are. It's how I it's I know how deep and dark and sinful and wicked my heart is because I know who you are, how holy and just and righteous you are, and how much you know you paid so that I can be declared righteous by the blood of Jesus. And I mean that is that's it, man. You know, if if you if you do that, I I think it's it's hard to let pride slip in when our eyes are fixed on on our savior. Right. I've got two things here. So first is two things that that we have recently said, Chip has recently said to us as one, if you're the hero of your own story, then Jesus is not. So wow. We need to realize that we're not the hero up there. Like it this band, this this set of music is not all about me and my talents. But two, as good leaders, good leaders equip others to lead.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:59

And so for me, my main goal, I mean, there's Sundays where I'm not even on stage, I'm in the booth because we have a need back there, you know. Like there's some Sundays where I don't sing a single song. Like I'm just up there strumming the guitar and trying to lead the team that way. And I think you actually, when you were there, you said something along those lines like, Thank you for leading, you know, not with your voice, but with your, you know, your guitar playing and just your presence up there. But that that's what a good leader does. So that's the first thing. A good leader equips others to lead. And so I should be leading my team with excellence to where they can lead worship, you know, and I just strum the guitar or I slide faders, you know, or I play the box drum like I did this last Sunday. Yeah. But then the second thing is this is the two I taught a seminar on excellence and worship leadership. I mean, I don't know what kind of wisdom I bring to the table, but with my dad, it was cool a couple months ago at a church over in Lee. And when we did that, one of the things that I said is I I feel like the two greatest characteristics that a worship leader, and this is for any young guy wanting to go into worship, the two greatest characteristics that a worship leader needs to have are humility and integrity. So humility to understand that you're not, again, you're not the hero, it's not all about me, and that I need to stay teachable.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:02

I need to stay teachable and I need to continue developing my craft. I do not have this all figured out. I am not like, what is my background? I am a sinner. I'm a filthy, wretched sinner trying to lead other sinners to worship the true creator. I don't need to see myself as above them. I don't need to see myself as on a pedestal, and I need to understand that I am not a rock star up there. This is not a rock concert. Yeah, this is a worship service, and we are worshiping the manifest presence of Almighty God, and it's not about me. My job is to hopefully lay the groundwork and create the environment that people feel like they're worshiping Jesus. And when Jesus shows up, get out of the way. Yeah. Right? Just point people to him and get out of the way. Again, how can I lead others where I myself am not walking? That's where integrity comes in, right? I am regularly participating in private worship. I am regularly practicing outside of this place. And so the integrity side of that is hey, I I have already walked this way. All week long I've walked with Jesus. You know, the old song, all week long I've walked with Jesus. I've already done that. So that when we get to the worship space, yeah, man, I'm just that is overflowing. My cup is overflowing, right?

SPEAKER_04 39:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:07

And I think in the in the confines of this conversation, but like I think we would all say, I think the question asks it, well, how do you guard your heart against pride and seeking the spotlight? So if you put a guardrail around something, right? If there's no danger, you don't put a guardrail on something, right? There's no reason for me to put a guardrail in my front yard. There's not any dangers there. But if my my house is built on a mountain where my children can fall off a cliff, I'm putting a guardrail there, right? Because there's there's imminent danger. So what I'm saying is this is I think that question is asked super well because there always is danger of us operating in pride. Yeah. Of us operating in a spotlight-seeking sense. And so I I think we've got to be vulnerable and real in that sense that that we fall into that more often than we would like to admit. You know, Chip talks about talked about this as well, the the whole performative Christianity, how easily we can slip into that and how our job as a worship leader can become something we do for the approval of God instead of from it. Yeah. And for the grace of God instead of from it. And the the best worship leader that I know, you know, his his name is Gary Durbin. Uh he's the one that gave me my first guitar. Such a good dude. And he does this so well. And and I've seen that man just broken over the grace of God for him. Yeah. And the grace of God that would even allow us to do something like this.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:26

And the moment that we think that, man, this is my stage, this is I've I've done something to earn this, then we'll we're in a dangerous spot. But I think that's why we put guardrails around our heart. That's why we guard our heart because we are so we are so easily baited that way. Right. Yeah. When we don't guard our hearts, it becomes a job. 100%. It becomes a job. It becomes a job. We we see, we start to see over time when we're uh through the process of not guarding your heart. Yeah. And not protecting that and not seeing we we lose this is the way I put it, we lose our awe in Jesus. Yeah. And so then we step into the worship space and we start to see Sundays as a job. Yeah, as a workday. Lucas, that's so good. There was a guy who uh really messed up in ministry. He was in jail, right? Yeah. Oh, I can't remember his name, but but they went and interviewed him and and they're like, man, we're like, what went wrong? You know what I mean? Like, you must not really love Jesus and all that stuff. He says, No, no, no. Like I I love him to death. He says, The problem is I I I lost my awe of God.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

And it became about me.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

That's where the angel starts. That's where the problem is, you know, like with with leading worship. I I really don't like the way I sound like you know, we will watch the video. So I'm my my problem's never been thinking, oh, I'm so awesome up here and stuff, but my problem is focusing on when it when everything becomes about me. Not that I'm so great, but all of a sudden all the worries, all the air, everything. Oh, this problem, this problem bothers me. That should be fixed because I don't like that. And I don't like this, and I don't like it. And it's really where, you know, I told you I threw my sucker in the dirt and walked away one time. And that's really where I was was I was just so focused on everything that was irritating me. And and I honestly talked with Eddie about it at one point, and he goes, Maybe it's you. And that just made me what do you mean? Maybe it's me. We don't love deer. Yeah. It just, but then, and that's what God used.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

You had to have a heart check.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Oh, that's where what God eventually, you know, like two years later, come back around. It is you, it is you. It's you know, it's you worried about you and not about what I have you for you to do.

SPEAKER_04 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

That is incredible advice right there.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah. Yeah. Well, fellas, anything else you want to add to our conversation before we land this plane?

SPEAKER_05 42:28

Yeah. Speaking of advice, uh I think Kevin, you should have said that louder for the people in the back because I think that is a massive thing. I think that in especially in a worship leading sense that we can almost pridefully be humble. If that makes sense. You can get to the place where we're we're so I I don't know. I th I think that when the Bible says our hearts are utterly wicked, like who can know it? Right. And I and not trying to get dark and and but but like that's how easily this can happen is that we can begin to think of ourselves, man, I'm I'm so humble that I would do this. I'm so humble that I would do that. And and I've been there before, and I get there sometimes in in the sense of like, well, here's here's something that you know, I'm I'm I'm walking through, here's something I'm I'm doing in this, and and really, even though maybe it's pitched like, hey, here's here's our great, great God, it's really about, hey, here's here's me. Right? That that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, it's humility can inadvertently ride because we can say, like, oh, it's all about Jesus. Yeah, and and uh we didn't get to this question, but I guess we're kind of on it. Man, what's the piece of advice you give to a new worship leader? Is yeah, it's that, but also God has equipped you to lead the team that you have. That's good. God has equipped you to lead the team that you have, not the team that you dream of.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:41

Right? And man, here at the orchard, we're incredibly blessed. We have such incredible musicians and all that. But but but no doubt, as a new worship leader, you will walk into a setting where it's probably not the sound that you're looking for and you're not elevation worship. Probably never will be, right? So, like, like that's the that's the thing. God has equipped you for the team that you have, not the team that you dream of. Yeah. And God has equipped you, even as maybe a 18 or 19-year-old worship leader, to do exactly what He's called you to do. Yeah. So I would give a few pieces of advice. The first one for a new, young, new worship leader, kind of going off the same idea there. Get you a mentor.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Get a mentor.

SPEAKER_05 44:18

I was blessed to have a mentor. And that helped me when I was young become a good worship leader. Like that, that I'm I'm serious. God, that played a huge role in God shaping me the way that He did because I had a mentor pouring into me who'd done this for years. If you're an older worship leader, get somebody that you can mentor, find somebody that you can mentor that God has equipped you for years and years and years to lead worship. Find somebody that is young and thinking about worship ministry and start pouring any kind of wisdom and knowledge that you have. I mean, even right now, like Kevin was talking about his story and how much I mean, like the guy sitting to our right right now has done for so much longer than we have. And still sitting right here, not on a stage, not in here, it's tiered up thinking about the God that he loves. Yeah, come on now. And I'll say that's mentorship. I I I he devalues himself a lot. But I love and greatly value the conversations that I have with Kevin. But but regardless of that, like I think to my dad, again, I'm gonna quote my dad because one, he's he's awesome. I love him. But he just he has poured this wisdom into me. I mean, when I I think back to hundreds of conversations that I've called him and I've said, hey dad, talk me through this. I I'm I'm struggling. There was a season in my life where I thought I thought of every other job that I could have but ministry. And a lot of conversations with my dad, I and and God really tugging in my heart, and a call from Chip Parker kept me from doing that. But that would be my advice is get a mentor. I mean, but then the other piece of it is I hope that folks are not gonna write this podcast off as, oh, that's the music podcast. I don't want to listen to that. What does that have for me? So if you're not a worship leader or a musician and you're listening to this, you are a leader somewhere. Absolutely. And and dads, you're a leader in your home. I just spoke about my nine-year-old giving his life to Jesus, and I firmly believe that's because I was a leader at my house. And so these things that we've talked about today, they can be things that apply to every season of life. We didn't we didn't read this question either, but the difference between church worship and worship outside the church, well, guess what? 95% of the worship of your life happen happens outside of the church. I mean, like you're you worship is a lifestyle. Yeah. And if you are a dad leading a lifestyle of worship, you're leading well.

SPEAKER_04 46:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

You are leading well. And these things that we've talked about today, these aspects of being a worship leader and things like that, they can practically be applied to your life outside, your job, your family, your wife, the way that you parent your kids, all of these things can be applied to that. And so if you're listening to this and you're not a musician and you're not on the stage on Sunday mornings, understand that you still lead somewhere. And all of these things, humility and integrity, all of these things that we've talked about today can be applied to those aspects of your life as well. You're a leader somewhere. Yeah. Shout out, shout out to the moms as well. Like my wife, right now at home with our two babies, so I can be here doing this.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:01

I mean, she moms set such an incredible tone of worship in their home. Yeah. And I'm thankful for them.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

So I think it all boils down to, like you said, like not losing that sense of awe over the God of the universe that handpicked you for this moment, whatever you're in. Right. I think that's what it all boils down for every believer, is like never lose the awe and the weight of who God is. Dang it, that's me.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

You gonna make me cry, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:22

And what he's done in your life. I mean, I think of like every single so person, whenever I am worshiping, I know this isn't even, we're probably should end this podcast at some point, but whenever I'm worshiping, it is one of those of I just I envision myself in the throne room, worshiping at the feet of Jesus. And I forget all time, I forget everything around me because I'm so just focused on the presence, the fact that I get to worship a God who's been with me in every season, every valley, every mountaintop. He doesn't change. And I get to do that on Sunday mornings with others around. Like if you ever call a teacher in worship, like I'm yeah, I'm not here on earth, I am somewhere else in my. But it's like that's what like yeah, and I get emotional because you can't help but focus on like, man, God is so good.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

I love that because I want to speak to that for just a moment. And and just it drives me crazy because and not just because I'm a music guy and I've grown up singing, but if you step into the worship space, this is bad in the South. I think music and singing is kind of considered immasculine. Right, like men don't sing, we don't sing, you know, and I I'm serious, I I firmly believe this. If you step into that worship space with that mindset, and the reason you don't sing is because you're a man's man. And listen, two two signs of a healthy church are singing men and crying babies. Right? Lead your family well, even if you don't have a good voice. God didn't ask for a a make a joyful noise. He didn't ask for a beautiful noise, he asked for a joyful noise. Yeah. Yeah. And this, and think about it this way, because this will absolutely wreck you if that's your mindset. What we do on Sunday mornings is rehearsal for eternity.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

That's so rehearsal for eternity. Especially when you hear those lyrics that over and over. I'm like, let's keep going, let's keep building. And I know some people are like, why are we singing it over and over? It's a rehearsal for eternity.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

Well, we just finished the baseball season and my son asked me, Hey, are we gonna play sports in heaven? I said, No, son. We're gonna be spending all of our time worshiping at Jesus' name. Oh, yeah, singing, singing holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. And what we're doing on Sunday is just a snapshot and a rehearsal. And so if you step into that worship space with that mindset, oh, I don't sing because it's not manly, or oh, I don't sing because I don't have a good voice, then you're you're not rehearsing well. Yeah, you're not rehearsing well. And uh the the reason I said earlier Asigger made me made me tear up here is because like you're talking about the awe of God, right? And yeah, well, we we've all got children in this room. And so I mean, th think about this for a minute. Like in a moment, I'm gonna I'm gonna go home and you know have lunch and check on the kids and my wife and all that. And when I open the door, little Henley, she's gonna light up and she's gonna run to me. Not because of anything I've done, not because of because I'm her dad. Right. And she has what I believe when Jesus says, Hey, unless you have faith like little kids, um, you will not inherit the kingdom of God. What does that mean? When I walk in the door, Henley drops everything she's doing and she runs.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:00

When you have an encounter with the Lord, yeah, do you drop everything and run to him? Is is it like that? Is the the awe that is in my daughter's eyes when I walk through that door? It's not because I'm I'm the most awesome person in the world, it's just because I'm a dad, right? But our Heavenly Father is the most awesome, incredible. I mean, more than a mind can comprehend worthy of our awe and affection. And is that true when we when we go to him?

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Right. Do you ever find yourself having to detach yourself from that thought during worship service? I mean, because you talk about how do you prepare on Sunday morning. Most times it's just work, work, work, work, work. And then when we get into the worship, I always like to picture myself, you talk about the throne room, the great throne where he's got the seraphim, you know, holy, holy, holy from side over there. That's where I like to put myself in worship. And and you'll get in there and get so wrapped up in it, then uh I'm a crier. Absolutely. You know, when you start focusing on what God has done for you, it's amazing. Oh, yeah. And so then I'll just lose it. And so you kind of have to detach yourself just a little bit from it because I'll get just so into the lyrics of the song, what we're actually saying, that we're actually standing before that God allows me.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:03

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I'm sitting there on Sunday morning and I'm sitting on a box drum, and I'm I'm I'm playing a beat on there, and tears are just like, yeah, because we're singing the line, then through the darkness, your loving kindness tore through the shadows of my soul, and I'm like, ooh. Because I'm sitting there thinking, like, God, you have radically changed my life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

The other, the other in this, I'll just leave it on this one. The other, the other thing is you were saying, you know, you look out over you and look at I can't. I can't open my eyes during which I tried because people say you need to be looking at the car. And I'll be like, so when Michael, I'll look up, I'll look up in the I go, Well, where are they going? What are they doing? And that's where my mind's going, like, oh no.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

So you mean when Michael texted us a couple weeks ago and said, Open your eyes when you're leading what's talking to you?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

I can't, man, because I'll start, I'll start focusing on, well, that person over there is not singing.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

Where are they walking? They're walking. The muscle. Part of it for me too is like, man, when one of our location pastors is preaching, when people say amen, it shows that they're locked in. They're listening, they're attentive, they're locked into what is being preached, right, and they've prepared well. Right. Yeah. When people respond in worship, it shows that they are locked in, that what we're doing, what we're singing, what we're playing, they're locked into it. And so when I see them locked in, it wrecks me. Yeah. And then a couple weeks ago on the end of the Scars on the Soul series, we talked about estrangement, right? And the story that we use, the family that we used, it was a very powerful story. And if you know them, it it's just this incredible story. But at the end of that service, Matt allowed for people who were struggling with any of these things that we had talked about through that series to come forward. And we, you know, we don't do that all the time. And so we don't see it all the time. Right. But it was like more than half the room. Wow. And I I couldn't, I couldn't sing. I literally, we were singing, we were singing, I'm not enough unless you come, will you meet me here again? And I'm like, I'm like, I I had to step away from my let the people sing because I was like, I can't, I can't do it. I mean, that just shows I had friends and their wives coming forward and and and Matt just moving from person to person, praying over people. And I'm like, I can do it, God. I need you to step into this moment because I've just shifted church, right? Yeah, yes, that we are all we are all such broken people walking through heavy things. So we say this all the time that either you're in it, you're about to be in it, or you're going to be. Yeah. You know, and so Bastin, thank you so much for for setting this up. This was awesome. Absolutely. Thanks. I feel like we could just keep going for hours, but we probably ought to end this joker. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 53:19

No. Yeah. I know. Whenever I was like about to lay in the question, I was like, nope, we're still going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 53:24

People stopped listening 20 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

That's okay. Well, guys, seriously, from the bottom of our hearts, thank you for just what you do for our church, what you do for these teens. Your teams are amazing. Like you said, we have so much talent here at the Orchard. Very bad. But thank you for just the hard work, but also the heart work that you put in every single week to just set the stage for where our people can encounter Jesus. And I know it's not you, but it's God through you. So thank you for just being in tune with that. But yeah, thanks for uh listening to today's episode and we will catch you next week. Have a great week. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Let's Talk About That. We hope it encouraged and challenged you as we continue to grow on this journey of faith and embrace community together. If you have more questions, thoughts, or feedback, we want to hear from you. Be sure to reach out to us through our social media or visit our website to stay connected. If you found today's discussion meaningful, don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review. Until next time, we hope that this episode inspired you and will keep Sunday's message at the front of your mind. See you next week.